<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div> On Apr 30, 2009, at 7:39 PM, <a href="mailto:DCFWTX@aol.com">DCFWTX@aol.com</a> wrote:</div><div><div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><font size="2" ptsize="10" family="SANSSERIF" face="Arial" lang="0" style="font-size: 13px; ">In a message dated 4/30/2009 7:33:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:park@videopark.com">park@videopark.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>writes:<br><br><blockquote type="CITE" style="border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 255); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; ">So did RCA use Colson's ideas or their own invention?<br></blockquote><br><br>That is a good point. Did RCA arrive at the same idea simultaneously, or did they have to license from Ampex the technology? Was there yet another "trade"?<br><br>David<br><a href="http://www.dcvideo.com">www.dcvideo.com</a></font><br></span></blockquote><br></div><div><div>One <i>could</i> compare the Ampex circuits with the circuits in RCA machines that came out at the same time or later than these Ampex developments did... to see whether RCA was making use of the Ampex ideas and patents. </div><div><br></div></div><div>The take I get from Albert Abramson's book "The History of Television, 1942-2000" is that each had access to the other's patents pertaining to video recording. </div><div><br></div><div>Abramson wrote on page 78 (bottom right column): "... a cross-licensing agreement was signed on October 14, 1957, which gave each party royalty-free rights to domestic and foreign patents and applications of the other party as these inventions pertained to the videotape apparatus."</div><div><br></div><div>In a somewhat redundant paragraph on the next page, he follows the redundant material with... "This gave RCA the rights to use any of Ampex's further patents or applications without further payment. This was a disaster for Ampex, as it was to come up with may innovative ideas that RCA was free to use, copy and sell." </div><div><br></div><div>His chapter notes for that aspect (P. 272 Chapter 4, fn's 16 and 17) state that the deal allowed RCA "to copy and use all of the Ampex improvements that came out in the following ten years. Everything from Intersync, Amtec, Colortec, Electronic Editing, Velocity Error Compensator and of course the high-Band system that Ampex had developed."</div><div><br></div><div>It's not clear from either the text or footnotes what is/are the source/s of that assertion. I don't see reference to a signed copy of the document, which may or may not exist anymore.</div><div><br></div><div><div>Did RCA actually do use those Ampex developments? Some of our folks who've used both types of first and second generation machines could likely address that issue.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Abramson's take on Ampex using RCA's concepts is that Ampex was too scared of violating RCA's patent's on the color system to pull some knowledge the other direction. </div><div><br></div><div>Abramson's chapter notes also reports that RCA applied for two patents based on the Ampex machine in Oct. 1957, which Ampex did not know about. Abramson was surprised that they were granted by the patent office in 1961. See A. C. Schroeder, <a href="http://www.google.com/patents?id=pDpkAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=US+Patent+2,979,557&source=bl&ots=KlJz3bMZTq&sig=N78jmShBOhEX4C251aESfhkZnZs&hl=en&ei=OHn6SevRBYfqtAOT0rnJAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#PPA1,M1">Patent 2,979,557</a> and E. M Layton, <a href="http://www.google.com/patents?id=pTpkAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=US+Patent+2,979,558&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0_0">Patent 2,979,558</a>.</div><div><br></div>The Schroeder patent emphasizes <i>color</i> television recording and makes use of the word <i>color</i> frequently. It begins by talking about dealing with velocity errors, but by the second page of text has spread to the transverse recording method. I'll leave it to someone else to pore through the pages and analyze whether it is a direct copy of what Ampex developed (or patented), and what it actually covers.</div><div><br></div><div>The Leyton patent covers the heterodyne method of stabilizing the color information when played back from transverse scan recordings.</div><div><br></div><div>The book's chapter notes are as fascinating in parts as the book text itself, and point readers to sources of information that may remain available for research, or might be on-line. </div><div><br></div><div>That much of the text of Abramson's book is readable on Google is good. It caused me to buy the book... for around $75. </div><div><br></div><div>A book reviewer would probably have opined that Abramson should have done a better job of keeping the text chronological and better compiled. There's a tendency to pursue a thread from one date/event to another... then jump back to the date or event and go down a somewhat similar avenue, sometimes with different dates involved.</div><div><br></div><div>On page 76, the arrival of the first of three NBC-ordered Ampex machines at NBC Burbank is cited as Dec. 13, 1956. The next page cites a different source (January, 1957 Broadcasting Magazine) saying they arrived on Dec. 14, 1956. That same section has NBC doing time-zone delay using the Ampex machines beginning the week of Jan. 15, 1957.</div><div><br></div><div>What does emerge from the chronology Abramson presents is that by August of 1957, RCA had color working on a machine at RCA Labs in Camden. Ampex's Charles Ginsburg was one of the people present during the August 15 demo, and is quoted by Paul Fuher as saying that "enough of he mechanism could be seen to determine that they (RCA) had used much of the essential mechanism of the Ampex recorder."</div><div><br></div><div>The idea of cross-licensing was floated shortly afterward, and by October, '57, the agreement was signed. </div><div><br></div><div>RCA introduced it's engineering prototype machine two weeks later... playing color via network to New York and Burbank. RCA's product didn't look much like an Ampex machine at that point... but wouldn't have been possible without the FM recording system and Ampex's perfection of it (in 1957 terms.)</div><div><br></div><div>One can wonder what might have happened had Ampex NOT signed the document.</div><div><br></div><div>Ted</div><div><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Ted Langdell</span></font></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">Secretary</span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">Skype: <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>TedLangdell</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">e-mail:<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><a href="mailto:ted@quadvideotapegroup.com">ted@quadvideotapegroup.com</a></span></font></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span> </div><br></div></body></html>